tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post5982160010187613917..comments2024-02-27T10:53:43.331-05:00Comments on Big Media Vandalism: "In a world that has The Darjeeling Limited, Sidney Lumet should be imprisoned!": A Conversation with Armond White, Part ISteven Boonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10533736956366847765noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-84699222018411611322011-06-09T11:04:37.153-04:002011-06-09T11:04:37.153-04:00I enjoyed most of the movie except for the implica...I enjoyed most of the movie except for the implication that Indian women are "easy" and that children are "so many," its OK to have one die just to add drama to plot.watch movie onlinehttp://www.moviesplanet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-57936560026481192972009-02-18T10:26:00.000-05:002009-02-18T10:26:00.000-05:00This reads less like an interview and more like an...This reads less like an interview and more like an argument. Boone does so much talking we miss out constantly on hearing White's thoughts. There are numerous sections where Boone just goes on and on, often with difficult to understand statements like saying a scene "breathed," to which White gives a terse answer. Instead of Boone exploring why White thinks a certain way, he frequently goes off explaining his thoughts on a subject. I don't mind reading a conversation between two interesting people but White is the interesting one here. Boone's comments are often not well-thought out and he spends a lot of time just defending himself. <BR/><BR/>White makes some great comments about image quality. There are interesting things being done with video these days but you still can't get the clarity and sharpness of film with it. Also, we have been inundated with digital video effects for years that look plastic and fake. It doesn't mean that people shouldn't use digital video, it's that we shouldn't walk around saying they acheived equality. <BR/><BR/>Boone is right to point out movies that use the medium very well, like he does with "Iraq in Fragments." But, for example, the film "Primer," is a tour de force and has amazing performances and an excellent script -- still, it doesn't change the fact that the movie looked like shit and suffered because of that.<BR/><BR/>I also agree with White's comments that Spike Lee is at his worst when he veers away from realism and into caricature.Jim Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07206643908746922816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-65329541639698877222008-01-16T14:14:00.000-05:002008-01-16T14:14:00.000-05:00There's a short interview with Armond White on my ...There's a short interview with Armond White on my blog.<BR/><BR/>http://www.wowjonesreport.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-86545225410827327052007-12-21T13:00:00.000-05:002007-12-21T13:00:00.000-05:00I guarantee you, the percentage of know-nothings w...<I>I guarantee you, the percentage of know-nothings wielding a movie camera in Ho'wood is equal to or greater than the percentage of know-nothings shooting on the weekends in their backyards. The illusion of hierarchy and "professionalism" must be smashed.<BR/><BR/>Shoot your movie, but don't go about it as if you're on a farm team looking to be recruited by the Yanks. To wax Armond-ish, only fools think that budgets are what separate the heavyweights from the lightweights.</I><BR/><BR/>hmmmm.... i'll definitely chew on that, man...<BR/><BR/>lemme go read the rest of the interview first, though!Comb & Razorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912912211584098914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-72508319542721601532007-12-21T02:52:00.000-05:002007-12-21T02:52:00.000-05:00Vadim: When you and I met and spoke briefly at the...Vadim: When you and I met and spoke briefly at the NYFF, I got the impression that you take movies as seriously and personally as White does. For my greedy eyes, that's value enough to keep reading somebody. I can live with anybody's insanity if it provokes and instructs.<BR/><BR/>C&R: I believe it is now <I>very</I> easy for anybody to make something that looks like a movie, but that doesn't trouble me one bit. It bugs me out when people fret over a "decline in standards" that techno-democracy might cause. What standards, exactly? I just reviewed <I>National Treasure: Book of Secrets</I>, one of the worst movies ever made, but highly representative of current Ho'wood "standards."<BR/><BR/>I find it ironic that people express caution about the mini-DV and YouTube wilderness-- mostly on blogs and internet message boards. Should we remove those forums because they have lowered writing standards? Should we charge $100 per Bic pen to make sure that writers mean business? Should Final Draft software be licensed only to guild members?<BR/><BR/>I go to Times Square and I'm assaulted by corporate graffiti everywhere, but people have a problem with plain folks adding something to this chorus/cacophony.<BR/><BR/>Look, democracy in cultural production always yields to a meritocracy in cultural consumption. Tastes are so bad right now not because of democracy but because of the hegemony of a few small-minded, deep-pocketed businessmen. From the Golden Era moguls to today's TV-cultivated development execs, the problem has always been rich dweebs telling us what to look at and how to look at it. The "markets" they're enslaved to are only their 20th century values coming home to roost. (Insular Hollywood (1910-1966) instilled in us these cheap dreams that globalized Ho'wood (1966-Present) now says we want in our heart of hearts. The bill of goods gets <A HREF="http://www.scifi.com/tinman/)<br/>" REL="nofollow">resold</A>.<BR/><BR/>If it weren't for techno-democracy, this article wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Why shouldn't we dive into filmmaking with the same abandon?<BR/><BR/>I guarantee you, the percentage of know-nothings wielding a movie camera in Ho'wood is equal to or greater than the percentage of know-nothings shooting on the weekends in their backyards. The illusion of hierarchy and "professionalism" must be smashed.<BR/><BR/>Shoot your movie, but don't go about it as if you're on a farm team looking to be recruited by the Yanks. To wax Armond-ish, only fools think that budgets are what separate the heavyweights from the lightweights.Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02857832534463228577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-40612920539514006232007-12-20T10:06:00.000-05:002007-12-20T10:06:00.000-05:00wow... this is a great exchange! i don't know the ...wow... this is a great exchange! i don't know the last time a conversation about film--or for that matter, about film <I>criticism</I>--gave me so much to think about.<BR/><BR/>like most folks, i find White intriguing, perplexing, maddening... but the portrait presented here kind of provides a human context for his views. but it hasn't done much to change my perception of him as a contrarian for the hell of it.<BR/><BR/>i have to sorta agree with Virgil that it seemed at some points that he was trying to intimidate you, but i think you held your own.<BR/><BR/>i'd say he's mostly right about film being a bourgeois art (not about hip-hop being one, though)... even though i use DV, i'm acutely aware of the fact that it IS a compromise and the minute i can afford to shoot on film, i probably will. <BR/><BR/>i think a lot of the excitement over technologies like DV tend to put process over product: sure, it's easier to make a film now, but are we making <I>better</I> films?<BR/><BR/>frankly, i'm a bit cautious when people start talking about "democratizing" art... maybe i'm some sort of elitist, but i don't want it to become <I>too</I> easy for just <I>anybody</I> to make a movie... somehow i believe that that only leads to a general lowering of standards.Comb & Razorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912912211584098914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-83410286314936788322007-12-15T18:33:00.000-05:002007-12-15T18:33:00.000-05:00Man, Armond drives me off the walls, but I applaud...Man, Armond drives me off the walls, but I applaud your ability to not take the bait and keep going — even if you're obviously far more invested in him than I am, you drive him into a number of seeming contradictions that haters like me can pounce on.<BR/><BR/>So far, I've agreed with him on 2 counts: the white privelige Darjeeling problem and Blade Runner. Otherwise, I still think he's insane. Great work.Vadimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16748591562916338637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-87779884107186516692007-12-13T01:45:00.000-05:002007-12-13T01:45:00.000-05:00Did some thinking on Ridley Scott:He was once was ...Did some thinking on Ridley Scott:<BR/><BR/>He was once was far from a hack. Alien, Blade Runner and even Legend are distinct visions. Like Terry Gilliam, he is a maker of worlds who, when dealing with more quotidian subjects, becomes clumsy, shows far less passion, reverts to formulaic hackery. Matchstick Men and American Gangster, for example, are oil-slick TNT network movies, with some premium cable adult content thrown in. Scott was once a Josef von Sternberg for Cinefantastique readers, but since Thelma and Louise it seems he's tried to "grow" into a more utilitarian, self-effacing storyteller. This attempt has made him seem a hack. You'd expect his American Gangster to be a voluptuous, overflowing '70s fantasia, but it's no more than diverting TV, full of false moments and superficial characterizations. When he goes back to building teeming otherworlds instead of pretending to know something substantial about this one, he can probably take the hack cap off. (Same goes for Gilliam, who is no good with terra firma, unless time travel, distant history, mythology or some or other fantastical element is in the mix.)Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02857832534463228577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-85707357455580499002007-12-13T00:29:00.000-05:002007-12-13T00:29:00.000-05:00Steve;He's someone you've read for a long time, an...Steve;<BR/>He's someone you've read for a long time, and you treated him with respect and humor. That shows your maturity and humanity. I'm reacting to his disrespect for you, the filmmakers, and the moviegoing (and making) public.<BR/><BR/>Also: "Only cuz you told me to"---well played.Virgilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125900267060346024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-29354899198951947402007-12-12T19:18:00.000-05:002007-12-12T19:18:00.000-05:00virgil: "Never let any man tell you what to think....virgil: "Never let any man tell you what to think."<BR/><BR/>Okay, but only cuz you told me to.<BR/><BR/>Easy, brother. I tend not to give kneejerk responses to kneejerk, blanket accusations. I wasn't there to trade insults with Armond White but to have a conversation. Not an interview, a conversation. Intellectual big dick contests don't interest me at all. I'm no close friend of White's, but I know him through his work enough to expect comments like "you need to sharpen your eyes" -- and to push past them to the real content.<BR/><BR/>And <I>The Color Purple</I> is the one creative project Oprah's been involved in that is definitely <I>not</I> mere Oprah-twaddle.<BR/><BR/>See? I came up with that one on my own.Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02857832534463228577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-81261133141792329862007-12-12T18:58:00.000-05:002007-12-12T18:58:00.000-05:00Steve - I'm not even remotely ashamed of using DV....Steve - I'm not even remotely ashamed of using DV. I think that my short looked amazing for shooting with, what was at that time, a very good DV camera. My DP came up with some great images but reading this made me feel like maybe I’m not pushing myself hard enough, maybe there’s not enough coming out of me but that’s my nut to crack not his. All I know is I've been thinking about this interview since I read it. <BR/><BR/>Does he really think Fincher, Lynch, Mann & Co. aren’t pushing the limits of digital video? What!?! Everything he says about David Lean is true but is that it? Is that where it ends? Personally, I think <I>The Conformist</I> is where it ends but hey, that's just me. <BR/><BR/>What rubs me the wrong way is this strange hierarchy of filmmaking that AW turned this interview into. The poor have other things to do? WTF? I think if Cassavetes was still around he would have thrown down with White to be honest. Him or at least one of his disciples like Seymour Cassel or Timothy Carey (that's quite an image). <BR/><BR/>Then there are points where I totally agree. I think Ridley Scott is very, very overrated. I saw <I>Blade Runner</I> at the Zeigfield recently and thought, “gorgeous.” I'm a huge fan, I can't say it any other way, of <I>Alien</I>. He does have an eye for pretty things but I feel like I’m being bludgeoned sometimes especially with the more recent films. His body of work feels hollow. <BR/><BR/>I don’t want this to be an AW bashing session (I’m sure he’s so used to it he has rhino skin) because I think a critic like that serves a very important purpose. They are all valid opinions because they are his but beyond that he makes you question your own values as a filmmaker, film audience member or even a fellow film critic. That is his value. Yes, he agitates but it’s obvious that he cares deeply about the art form that we all care about very deeply. That is where true art takes us and if you are agitated, well, you care as much about this art form as he does because you’re willing to defend your film stylings, influences, tools and tastes.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09464531948766525587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-75128540438158317592007-12-12T14:53:00.000-05:002007-12-12T14:53:00.000-05:00Amen, Virgil.Amen, Virgil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-29388614836236939262007-12-12T12:47:00.000-05:002007-12-12T12:47:00.000-05:00Virgil OTM.You cornered White on at least three oc...Virgil OTM.<BR/><BR/>You cornered White on at least three occasions into contradicting himself, after each of which he slipped away laterally.<BR/><BR/>This insistence on a particular "look" in film strikes me as a handicap for a critic, and I have to wonder if it isn't White who needs to "sharpen his eyes." I can imagine him dismissing the first VU record ("but George Martin —") or Jackson Pollack ("real painters can afford brushes, sad but true...")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-67576040900970547822007-12-12T12:46:00.000-05:002007-12-12T12:46:00.000-05:00I think I got more knowledge about film here than ...I think I got more knowledge about film here than I did in a semester at NYU. As well as some support of my unpopular criticisms of Blade Runner and Ridley Scott in general. I hear you on the whole DV thing and don't think you're psycho. White's arguments are strong and compelling which makes it all the more admirable that you didn't fold.<BR/>Thanks for this.Signore Direttorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01323881247246125715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-16062985758004358982007-12-12T10:57:00.000-05:002007-12-12T10:57:00.000-05:00He's a narcissist who loves to intimidate others i...He's a narcissist who loves to intimidate others into thinking that their opinions are somehow the result of shoddy thinking, while his are mature and reasoned. It's pure solipsism, and it only works on people the speaker can intimidate or impress into relenquishing their self-respect for their own powers of critical thinking.<BR/><BR/>How many times in that interview did he tell you that your personal visceral reaction to a piece of art was invalid? Not that he simply had a different reaction, which would indicate some understanding of a world populated by different kinds of people, but that your opinion could not have any merit at all. <BR/><BR/>What he was telling you about bringing your own expectations and prejuidices to Spike Lee's films is exactly what he brings to Lumet's films. White's obsessions are focused on one particular visual aspect of film, and because he find that to be of paramount importance, he dismisses the rest. <BR/><BR/>The Color Purple may have impressed him in all the manners he claims, but it's still a Hallmark Card soft focus, cornily acted-cornily-scored piece of Oprah-twaddle. In my opinion. See how easy that is?<BR/><BR/>Never let any man tell you what to think.Virgilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03125900267060346024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-86048955588695923962007-12-11T19:21:00.000-05:002007-12-11T19:21:00.000-05:00Thanks, fellas. Thrilled that y'all are getting so...Thanks, fellas. Thrilled that y'all are getting something out of it, other than the impression that I'm psycho over this DV issue.<BR/><BR/>William, if you're talking about your digitial video exploits, don't feel like shit about shit. I say keep making your movies, and faster and cheaper and better. White is a hero of mine, but so is Cassavetes (check the masthead). The latter would have shown us all what to do with this technology, aside from gawk at it like apes at a monolith.<BR/><BR/>When any of us puts something good out there, I trust a critic like White to revise his assessment.Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02857832534463228577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-73798480575445464422007-12-11T02:48:00.000-05:002007-12-11T02:48:00.000-05:00Great interview so far! Love the sharp difference...Great interview so far! Love the sharp differences of opinion; sometimes I find myself in your corner and other times his. I wish you'd brought up Robert Altman's <I>the Company</I>, which was on A.W.'s top 10 list the year it came out, as an example of gorgeous images created through digital video. Perhaps Altman comes up in part 2...Brian Darrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693169310367670898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-41286582941306325422007-12-10T18:14:00.000-05:002007-12-10T18:14:00.000-05:00Whoooaaa, Steve. Great stuff. These are conversati...Whoooaaa, Steve. Great stuff. These are conversations I've had in my head about video and film, the big names and the little guys, all of it. White is fiesty. I like it. I was cutting my teeth on J.Hoberman back in the day and I've never really read a lot White's writings but this is some real fantastic stuff. <BR/><BR/>My feelings echo a lot of the frustrations with Spike, definitely Ridley Scott and Lumet. If I may be so bold, I think what we're looking for in films is sublime and that's all in the details. Some filmmakers are better at serving up those details to an audience than others and I agree that there is a massive agenda in film reviewing. A lot of the stuff I read is tripe. His attitude provokes real critical thinking about cinema and where we're going with it.<BR/><BR/>I can tell you're speaking from a achingly painful place about what video has afforded us but AW has a different point of view. Great food for thought. <BR/><BR/>It makes me feel like shit about my own work but I'm still looking forward to part II.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09464531948766525587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-405577478378638192007-12-10T15:22:00.000-05:002007-12-10T15:22:00.000-05:00I think the comments on Blade Runner there at the ...I think the comments on <I>Blade Runner</I> there at the end represent the first time I ever remember agreeing with Armond White.<BR/><BR/>This was a fascinating interview, and White comes across just as irascible and opinionated as I would expect from his reviews. Great stuff.Ed Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18014222247676090467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-43096636188560407932007-12-10T12:57:00.000-05:002007-12-10T12:57:00.000-05:00Lumet is an archetypal studio director in style, b...Lumet is an archetypal studio director in style, but that style helped engender some of the more distinct American films of the early 60s.<BR/><BR/>It's easy to look at what followed (including Before The Devil, which I found overrated) and say so now, of course.Steve Macfarlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02549417295026917494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14169925.post-50860588043933221292007-12-10T11:11:00.000-05:002007-12-10T11:11:00.000-05:00Wonderful conversation, thank you for posting this...Wonderful conversation, thank you for posting this. I was not familiar with Armond's work, but I will now seek his reviews.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com